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tv   MSNBC Live With David Gura  MSNBC  August 25, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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i'm late, it is the top of the hour, got hand it over to alex gura. >> 80eight, nine, ten. thank you very much. i'm david gura. scandals, what scandals? not a word from president trump about the up miimmunity deals f pecker and weisselberg. how close will all of this get to the president? but the person he cannot seem to talk top talking about is jeff sessions. he was abad on back on twitter saying he doesn't understand what is happening to the justice
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department. is the writing on the wall for the attorney general? and omarosa talking race in president's white house including her encounters with steve bannon. >> he explained that he was a proud white man and i tried to push back, but if you've ever -- i don't know if you have, but i've had a chance to sits down and talk to him and it is actually scary for him to not see the alignment and the harm it is doing. >> what many are calling the worst week of his presidency, donald trump remains consistent, he is using twitter again attacking the fbi, prodding the attorney general and pointing the finger at hillary clinton. but no denying that investigators are pouring over his personal and business finances. michael cohen is accusing him the breaking finance campaign
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laws. and now some have imine imunity. we are covering it all. michael, let's go back a month. you all report here that there is interest in that allen weisselberg has been subpoenaed. catch us up to speed, what has happened. take rais that raised a lot of questions. >> what we reported is that he had gotten immunity for his testimony in the grand jury and that he did in faskts go to tct grand jury. that did occur maybe a month ago or so as part of the michael cohen investigation. and as ceo of the trump organization, we learned in michael cohen's plea that an individual who is weisselberg had approved invoices for reimbursement for the payment to stormy daniels in 2017 that was
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approved. >> i you right after that piece came out and i asked you who is the more valuable of these individuals? allen weisselberg with the long history of working for the trumps, or michael cohen who was a fixer for so long, clearly communicated about this with donald trump. who do you think has the more information or most valuable information? >> it could be two different things. within, who has t en would, who has the most information, but in myhe the mo valuable. and michael cohen is pretty much able to cooperate and tell everything that he knows. >> the focus has been on washington. but also on a courthouse hearing in new york. and you've written about this. the degree to which what is
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drive things now is the southern district of new york. >> right. and i think that what is really perilous for the president is not necessarily this special counsel investigation, but prosecutors in manhattan. they don't necessarily pose a bigger threat to the president, but they definitely appear to pose a more immediate threat. i mean, three of the president's long time loyal allies have pleaded guilty or been granted immunity to testify against him. and that is absolutely huge. it is really, really damaging to the president. and people around him, people who work in the white house are scared, they think that this could have long lasting impacts. and steve back nnnon is saying it could have a neglect timt impact on the midterm elections. and of course now he is quiet about it perhaps because he realizes that the danger this poses to him especially when it comes to allen weisselberg. i have a feeling that this is not the last we'll hear of him.
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not only was he involved in the trump organization and trump foundation, but he also controlled a lot of trump's accounts. he took over the trust. so he knows a lot. he also knows so much about what other hush money payments were made over the course of donald trump's life really. i mean he has been there exclusively throughout his adult life working for the trumps. so i don't think it is the last we'll hear from him and of course lanny davis has imif a iz emphasized that he has completely turned against the president and is willing to tell everyone everything. >> and jeff, you have advantage of proximity. you are there at the white house. you are traveling with the president when he went to ohio. and i want to get a sense of the degree to which this widening investigation is affecting the president. >> they are certainly bracing
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for the president to lash out. really on twitter we've seen him take aim at what are now familiar foes. you have hillary clinton, the fbi, justice department, miss own attorney general jeff sessions. of course i tick through the list as if it is normal for a president to attack his own justice department and attorney general even though it is not. but what the president is facing, he has legal headaches on four fronts. robert mueller investigation, the investigation by the u.s. district court focused on michael cohen, you have michael cohen implicating the president in a crime, you have also have the new york state attorney general looking into the trump foundation for what it calls persistent violations much state and federal law, and then the manhattan district attorney's office which is pursuing criminal charges related to this whole michael cohen situation. so again the president at this point we're told is really facing these scandals the way he
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has past scan dells trying to confront it head on. he even told a source familiar, joked with them that the media would erroneously report how angry he is about all of this. republicans describe this as a real turning point, there is also real concern that the president might issue a pardon for paul manafort and dig the hole even deeper as one source described to me and really caused the calls for impeachment to grow even louder. >> and i want to talk about david pecker. i want you to tell me more about that relationship, what we have learned since the plea deal. it is an alliance based on mutual benefit. give us a sense of what drove that. yes, there was a lot of many at play, but why was to each side's
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advantage. >> >> david perk had a velckere relationship with trump since the late '90s. and he enjoyed association with powerful people. in turn he protected trump by not letting any negative stories about trump run even before he was running for president and certainly during the campaign, we learned this week that in august 2015, he promised to actually serve as kind of a vacuum for any negative information that might come up against trump. and then kill it which is what we had reported that he did in the case of karen mcdougal who alleged that she excellent with tru slept was trump and was paid $150,000 and we know ami employees were involved in the stormy daniels negotiations as well. and pecker was going to sell the mcdougal rights to michael cohen, but kind of killed that off. and finally, we learned that
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perk has told a pecker was told -- we reported that perk told the process cute tors that trump knew about the payments to the two women which is very significant because it supports michael cohen's version that he stood up in court and said that trump knew about all this.cohen's version that he stp in court and said that trump knew about all this. >> the a.p. is saying that there was a safe or safes indicating that there is a lot of information in there. begs a lot of curiosity. what could be in those? >> he said that david pecker knew and kept in those safes information about that trump tried to bury about his kid, about his ex-wife, about affairs, about melania. he says there is a whole host of information that donald trump wanted to bury over the years and that was kept in that safe. whether or not that is true, all evidence points to that can the case because of course trump has been known throughout his entire life to be very media savvy and
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not want bad stories about him to being out there and just be very much a control freak when it comes to what is published, but it is really interesting hearing the "national enquirer" say that in a onthat into the oy was there is a safe in new york, but a safe in l.a. so it really does raise questions about what else was buried and killed. >> we have two months until michael cohen returns to be sentenced. one of the things you've been focused on is this nuclear power deal and the quasi lobbying cohen was doing about that. and again details about payment to a qui tar qatarian swrid ind.
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how rich is this deal in the middle east? >> we reported that the brokered the sale of real estate for a member of the qatar royal family and that was well above we were aware that he had a relationship with the gm because he had pitcd this deal in april. so he obviously mad a relatihad relationship with them going back several years. and we haven't seen in the charges anything relating to lobbying as of yet. so it would definitely not be surprising if that were to emerge somewhere down the line, whether on the federal level or state level. so we'll be looking into it. >> and geoff bennett, we saw the president react i think one could say in terms of talking to fox news about flipping, we've seen numerous pieces now comparing his rhetoric to rhetoric we've heard members of the mob use in the past here. let's talk about that one thing in particular though.
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his nemesis on flipping. what does that tell you about his focus going forward? >> well, we've seen how he praised paul manafort for being strong and not breaking like michael cohen. he continues to taunt jeff sessions for doing his job really and recusing himself from the russia investigation. so the president has an entirely different view of his roam nle only as the leader of the executive branch, but as the president when it comes to how he should comport himself when it comes to these investigations. >> all right. thanks to all of you for your time. we'll talk a bit more about sessions in a little bit. an update on another story, the condition of john mccain. his family putting out a statement saying that the former military veteran and prisoner of war will no longer receive treatment for brain cancer. john mccain served in the senate for over 30 years. he's made a run for the presidency twice and cindy, his wife, tweeted out that the
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entire mccain family is overwell md outwell himmed by the outpouring of love. and sprd calling for jeff sessions to investigate democrats. will the attorney general do what his boss wants? by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm up for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. so what's next? seeing these guys. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding,
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he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. welcome back. president trump fighting with his own attorney general again. this morning he said jeff sessions does not understand what is happening underneath his
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command. that is the latest dig following a war of words this week in which of attorney general fired back saying in statement he took control of the department of justice when he was sworn in, that the actions of the doj will not be improviperlifully influe. jill, tell me about the pin today. >> the pin is two flippers. and my twirts follo wit followel me who they think these are. >> very good. let's start with the sound.wit me who they think these are. >> very good. let's start with the sound. what president trump said to fox news. let's take a listen. having some trouble. i'll read you that jeff sessions
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said i'll recuse myself. only reason i gave him the job is because of loyalty. we have seen the attacks on the attorney general. i think 21 tweets in total expressing disapproval of what the attorney general has done. what was different about in week as you listened to what the president said and the three tweets that spoke to the attorney general about. >> to me it is a continuation of what he has been doing from beginning which is undermining or institutions of justice and it is very scary because i think when we look at the juror who has talked from the manafort trial, she was a supporter of his and she remains a trump supporter. but she recognizes that there was overwhelming evidence of guilt. so in a trial, jurors might quikts hi convict him, but voters will keep to support him. so to some extent he is being
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successful. she said the investigation is a witch hunt, she is parroting everything donald trump says. so it is scary how effective his attack has been even though it is based on a totally wrong headed view of the department of justice. jeff sessions understands the role of the department of justice as the people's lawyer. not as donald trump's lawyer. they should be acting to protect the laws of america and the ruled of law in america. >> ken, on that point, you wrote a must read peets of iece of an about that juror. you said she is an ardent supporter for president trump, came to the manafort trial thinking that the mueller's russia investigation is a witch hunt that is dividing america. she still thinks so, but she also has no doubt that paul manafort was guilty, she would have convicted him on all ten
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counts but they were stymied by one holdout. give me your perspective. >> i agree with everything that jill said and i found this woman so sfas naturing. she has been fed in my view a diet of misinformation about the mueller investigation from right wing media. so she believes that tak s thas witch hunt. she said i went to polls and voted for donald trump, no russian held a gun to my head. but after 12 days of sitting in that trial where the prosecutors put in front of her a whole bushel full of evidence that paul manafort was guilty, she believed it. so people like this can be reasoned with, but they are fed an entire diet of lies. like if nixon said a diet of
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people saying that it didn't happen. and it is much to donald trump's benefit. >> jill, as this trial got under way, you and i spoke about how it was a documents case, this the first trial of paul manafort, and introduced into that was rick gates the former partner of paul manmanafort. one has to one dir twonder the he will play in the next trial. what is your read on that, what will prosecutors take away from the first trial as at the look head to the next trial in washington, d.c.? >> i think it was always a risk putting rick gates on the stand. they have certainly learned all of the weaknesses and how he will be attacked. and may be able to better put on a direct case with him to get that out of the way during the direct case. but it still is risky. it depends on where he has any specific knowledge in this next case that can't be filled in by
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documents. it clearly was the documents that led to the convictions in the virginia case. i don't know what the evidence will show. there are more document in the dooets cas d.c. case. so it will be interesting to see how it plays on out. it is my experience as a trial lawyer that jurors act differently than ordinary citizens. they take very seriously putting aside their biases, they take very seriously looking at the evidence, and judging only on the evidence. and if you could have a juror like miss duncan who is so loyal to donald trump but can see the facts, if as ken said she would listen to msnbc a instead of fox news, she might have a different opinion of his whole presidency. but even still if he were to be indicted, the evidence against him would be viewed by a jury, not by his loyal voters about and that might make a big
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difference. >> jill, thank you very much. ken, i'll ask to still with me. up next, omarosa defending michael cohen. let someone else do the heavy lifting. tripadvisor compares prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price.
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omarosa continuing her assault on her former employer today. her book paints the picture of a pd president unraveling. today she recalls the president racial and it contradicts what she told of a sharp ton just last week. >> is donald trump in your mind a racist? >> yes, donald trump is. >> did those things at the time make you think, wait, this guy is not just racial, he might be racist? >> when donald trump started attacking nfl players about neelt i kneeli kneeling, he only attacked african-american athletes. and it wasn't him calling out saying he was racist, but he was being race i. >> and ken, let me start with you. i. >> and ken, let me start with you.i i. >> and ken, let me start with you.stw i. >> and ken, let me start with you.. >> and ken, let me start with you.. >> and ken, let me start with you.>> and ken, let me start wi you.. >> and ken, let me start with you. i'll play one more sound. take a listen. >> do you think john kelly is
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racist? >> oh, yeah, john kelly thought the civil war was about compromise. it was about slavery. >> and there she is talking about john shkreli. ken, let me can you about that. here we have are a few weeks out. what do we do with the picture that she is painting of this white house? >> my recommendation would be to discounts it unless and until she brings forth some tapes. because she is not a very credible person. it is interesting to hear her observations, but i think that we should keep focused on the important stuff which is this past weeks have been potential lay turning poishts in the trump presidency. is certainly wasn't an inflection point in the investigation with the conviction of paul manafort,
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guilty plea of michael cohen and that the news that the two key figures have been granted immunity to testify. ostensibly in the cohen investigation, but a lot of people believe about other things having do with donald trump. and it really does seem like the president with his exhibits about the attorney general, with his increasing trafficking in conspiracy theories from right wing websites about missing clinton e-mails that he is really growing ever more december pratd and sperate and like a crime boss last week. he was impugning every prosecutor who serves the country. >> natasha, on that point, a question about omarosa. he wants to see evidence. and this is snag she his someth
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said, she says i have e-mail exchanges, raising the spector that she will produce those as well. we're waiting for the new book from bob woodward that will give us on more fact based glimpse here what was going on insides white house. how much has that changed it that we have that tape of her talking to john kelly in the situation room for instance, that there is evidence backing up a lot of what she has to say? >> i think that there is something to be said about omarosa's strategy here which is that she has released tapes from the beginning of her tenure and an end. so that is a signal to the white house what she was recording throughout her entire time there. she was documenting everything. and one of the most interesting things to me still is when she gave that interview with katy tur when katie asked her did donald trump know about the russian hack on the dnc and did he approve it. and she said yes, and so far the things that she has said have panned out. so if she has proof that donald trump is in the middle of this
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conspiracy, then that is interesting. the things that she said about michael cohen, about him -- her feeling bad for michael cohen, okay, michael cohen is not a sympathetic figure here. i think omarosa is kind of playing in to this very trumpian idea of loyalty where that is something that she considers valuable just as donald trump does. but the fact of the matter is that michael cohen now having realized that efhe was abandone by the president is trying to flip the narrative on his head. he threatens journalist, he paid off women during the campaign. so i think it is important to keep that perspective that even with people like omarosa going on the airwaves and saying that they feel bad for on him because he has not been treated well by the president, michael cohen is no angel here. and i think that is why
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3450u8ler h3450u mueller has not agreed to give him a deal. >> and we know loyalty is what the president prizes. a number of guests say takes it one way street when it comes to the president. he cares about it, he expects it and we're seeing this week a lot of people pushing back on that. >> yeah, that's right. i mean look, loyalty is a wonderful thing, but it tends to fray when you are con fronted with serving hard time in prison. people who wear suits to work don't to well in the penitentiary. clearly michael cohen did not want to appear guilty. this was touch and gee up o up the end. but he was looking at prison time that these charges carried and the vast amount of evidence xwen against him and he cut a deal. and it probably aided his decision making to know that he had been so poorly treated as
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many stories have documented by donald trump over the years. as he said, loyalty in his case had been a one way street for so long. >> my manages thanks to both of sticking around. still ahead, when reality tv becomes real life, why some are calling this the president's worst week ever. your manufacturing business. & so this won't happen. because you've made sure this sensor and this machine are integrated. & she can talk to him, & yes... atta, boy. some people assign genders to machines. and you can be sure you won't have any problems. except for the daily theft of your danish. not cool! at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & this shipment will be delivered...
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what a week it's been for the president.
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besides the giluilt, there have are now you two immunity deals. could testimony from david pecker a pecker and allen weisselberg implicate the president further? what else could they know bts president's personal dealings? joining me now is lucas albert and danny cevallos. i want to ask about the institution. we talked a lot about david pecker. tell me about the institution here. the condition it is in. written about the debt burden that it is under. set contrast for us. >> the bigger company is the american media inc., it encompasses the "national inquirer," us magazine, life and style, "in touch." they actually own the news stand the stand itself, they own a lot of those as well. so yes, this is neis newstand d,
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it is print. a very fast declining segment of the media industry. they have been in bad shape financially. they have a very large debt load, they are close to a billion dollars in debt, they just acquired new publications. and they are in the middle of a big refinancing. right now they are actually on the market trying to raise more debt to pay off some of the old dead and roll the ball along. this is what david pecker is really good at, he has been doing this for 20 years now with this company kind of keeping that debt ball rolling. so if he is indicted in the middle of all this, the very likely that the company collapses. it would be very hard for them to continue. >> danny, how much does it matter what the institution is? we're talking about a media company, or at least that is what it has been. but there are three stools toee president and pecker is one of the legs to that stool. does it matter what that institution is doing? >> it does matter because this
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is the media -- if you look at the history of this media and what it has provided for the president, it is very significant. it matters legally because in a sense, you know, we've talked so much about in kind campaign contributions. and it is interesting that this picture is emerging of someone who advanced the cause of donald trump arguably through just headlines alone. it is a really interesting thing. what he is doing under his immunity grid is completely going to be a mystery for the foreseeable future until -- unless and until the government investigators and special counsel's office decide to reveal that. >> does this institution know what it is? we look back on sort of pivotal moments, certainly with the john edwards story, it played a role that advanced that narrative, we saw it endorse donald trump during the presidential campaign. has it weighted into politics more directly in recent years? >> oh, certainly.
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it is not their bread and john a celebrity in their cap. so the donald trump thing is unusual. trump was a source for david pecker. he knew a lot of gossip. and so he would give them tips and so he played that game. he is not the only one who does that, but one that did that and he had a relationship with them that was valuable. so this was a long standing there. any negative stories even back to the dates on the apprentice didn't surface. >> and you've looked at the transcripts of that plea hearing
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in new york. what surprised you about the level of coordination? >> the thing that blew me away was the fact that michael cohen was charged with a campaign guy nantz violation because until that moment, america was guided between people who said that is a serious crime and other people who said, yeah, it is technically a crime, but i don't know that the spk wouecial coun would care about that. and i learn that had they care about that crime. and it is something that they care about and they are willing to prosecute it. john edouard wards was a differ kind of case. and this demonstrates that this is something that federal prosecutors are going to take seriously and it has major inch
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34ri indicati implications going forward. >> and what you be watching going forward?inch implications going forward. >> and what you be watching going forward?nch implications going forward. >> and what you be watching going forward?ch implications going forward. >> and what you be watching going forward?h implications going forward. >> and what you be watching going forward? implications going forward. >> and what you be watching going forward? >> obviously there is the attack of the safe, what other thing that is they ever. does more surface out of this. we know he about stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, is there more, will this come out through a legal process. i don't know. do the prosecutors need to dig deeper. but i'm curious. >> all right. thank you very much. husband of the year award not going to california congressman duncan hunter. wait until you hear why next. i don't keep track of regrets.
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no one has your back like american express. so no matter where you're going... we're right there with you. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. don't live life without it. when i went to iraq in 2003, i gave her power of attorney and she handled my finances throughout my entire military career and that continued on when we got in konlg. i congress. i'm gone five days a week and she was the campaign manager. so whatever she did, that will be looked at i'm sure. but i didn't do it. >> i didn't do it. indict the california
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congressman duncan hunter accused of using a quarter of a million dollars in campaign money for personal use blaming his wife after pleading not guilt to the charges. prosecutors say they have proof of lavish personal spending by the couple. they spent $14,000 on a family trip to italy, hundreds of dollars to fly their family's pet rabbit to washington. and $6,000 for another family trip to hawaii. joining me now is also our nbc news and also with politico. mike, let me start with you. i want to play a little more tape here. this is the congressman talking to fox news. let's take a listen. >> did you call your wife and say that you wanted to buy a pair of hi shoawaii shorts and said that you should buy it at the pro shop so you could falsely describe the purchase as
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golf balls for wounded warriors? >> i don't remember that, but i've never used any campaign money to buy myself anything or anybody else. i've never done that. and what they have done, what i've seen that testify done is edit some of the text messages and make them look different than they are. i can't pull down text messages from five yearsing ago. >> this indictment details each one of these expenditures. help me understand the ground work that has been laid. >> i think investigators or federal investigators in california have been looking into this. it shouldn't be a surprise to duncan hunter. and really what raises eyebrows and perhaps contradicts his examination it was his wife's fault, there are personal finances judging by this 60 count indictment where they are flats broke, the bond was only set at $10,000 for both he and his wife. the court noting that they
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evidently have no money whatsoever. and yet they are spending as you noted $14,000 on a family trip to italy, sounds kind of lavish, $6,000 to hawaii, on down the line. you murdheard duncan hunter sayt he rushed down to the marine recruiting office, joined the marines, two deployments. and that is when his wife took over. and yitd they are blaming some of this on -- not blaming, attributing some of the expenses to wounded warriors for the golf balls for $200 shoes for margaret his wife. that on top of the fact that just a few days before, he went on fox and other outlets and bl blamed his wife. he was instead blaming democrat, blaming the democrats that he says were running the department of justice. he says you see it happening to president trump. now it is happening to me. this is nothing but a witch hunt. so that gambit efvidently faile
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and now he is blaming his wife for some of these which he had to clearly know. and because he gave never a campaign credit card even over the oekts oekts objections of c staff. >> let's go to duncan's statement casting doubt on the investigation itself. he was one of the first sur rove gats for donald trump when he was running for president and now he is being surrogate for this message that we have heard as well, casting a similar kind of doubt here on investigator that the we've seen the white house cast as well. >> and actually the indictment comes very shortly after the first member of congress to endorse donald trump was
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in-dirted. i think there is a fear among both parties that that that is the new line. if you get charged, it must be this biased department of justice prosecutors out to get you. clearly a play to that crowd. >> and i want to go to the culture of was was was. margaret hunter was named treasurer of hunger's re-election campaign. given that credit card. so how can this man? la, people thank this is normal and acceptable? and what does that say about the culture of washington today? >> you talk grainiabout drainin
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swamp, and there have been investigations in the past by the ethics committee and other groups here in washington that demonstrate that a lot of people do play fast and loose with campaign laws. you been s see the former governor of virginia, his case going all the way to the supreme court in a similar case. the supreme court overturning the lower court's decision. so a lot of people have been emboldened, but this has been going on for a long time. duncan hunter's father was caught up in the house scandal. a lot of members had overdrafts that they were never paying back. 399 over drafts by duncan
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hunter's father. so on this is something that has been going on for long time 37 it went away. washington really by most estimates had been running cleaner over the past generation or so in the post water gates oig generation, but now we may see the pendulum swinging back. >> and i want to get into the political ramifications of this. tell me to about his district? california. i look here at the cook political report, this district was solid republican here, expected to be solid republican looking lady to t looking lady to the midterm tsz. how does it change the firmament? >> it is another battleground for republicans to be worried about it, to be thinking about temperature again, probably still a fairly safe republican
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district, but when you have this kind of a corruption scandal, you never know how it can shake out. because of this it has to be on their dhar and democr radar and democrats are getting excited about making an issue out of this scandal. >> all right. thank you both for joining me. coming up, the president ramping up his attacks on his attorney general after jeff session declares his independence. join us tomorrow when we talk to maxine waters about the new democratic party agenda and the russia investigation. ♪
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welcome back. i'm david gura. immunity granted. the money man, the alleged secret keeper and so-called fixer, three of president trump's close friends cooperating with prosecutors in some way. the problem this is could pose for the trump white house. plus pleasure principle, 13 president trump is back at attacking jeff sessions, saying you serve at the pleasure of the president.living on borrowed time? and similar accusations but almost ten years apart.
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is it political day ja vigentle gentlem jrktsz deja vu. i've always said why didn't the "national enquirer" get the pulitzer prize for edwards and o.j. simpson and all of these things? >> what the president is talking about today and just as important what he is not talking about after wishing vince mcmahon a happy birthday on twitter. he taked jeattacked jeff sessioe justice department, but what absent, any mention of immunity deals for close friends david pecker and the cfo of the trump organization.
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josh, let's focus on allen weisselberg. he was given immunity to testify at least in a narrow way. treasure ofofer of donald trump personal foundation. and we know that he was involved in a conversation that michael cohen had with the president as well. now that we know that he has been grachbtsgranted immunity, you watching for? >> it is curious why they would have given him immunity. just to go after michael cohen alone would be a sufficient reason just to do that. they have enough received, so you

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